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Forums' structure is not clear already

Forums' structure is not clear already

Wednesday 04 February 2015 11:38:00 am - 1 reply

I know it was reasonable to have new "eZ Publish 5 Platform" forum 3 years ago.

But now it is not completely clear where to create a new topic. Not only for me. There are a lot of topics regarding to eZP v5 in "Developer" and "Setup & design" forums.

My proposal is to create forums "eZ Publish 4", "eZ Publish 5" and even "eZ Publish 6" and subforums "Install & configuration".."Extensions" inside these forums. I think questions about eZP4 will appear many years yet even if it is not supported.

Modified on Wednesday 04 February 2015 11:40:36 am by Andrey Astakhov

Thursday 05 February 2015 12:49:00 am

Hello Andrey,

I have been recommending to new users that if their problem is an eZ Publish 5.x new stack problem then it belongs in the 'eZ Publish 5 Platform' forum. http://share.ez.no/forums/ez-publish-5-platform

I know we have had a number of users not using this forum and instead posting in the other forum sub forums incorrectly or at least often in a confusing manner. While frustrating to be sure, I think it is just something I think that comes with the territory.

Historically Cyclical

In general problem is actually a cyclical one (meaning reoccurring, repeating, part of a cycle).

That said, I've been following this kind of issue here in the eZ Publish forums (on ez.no before share.ez.no) since version 2.0.

With each major version release we encounter this issue here in the forums. The questions of a specific major version, often api incompatible or complete rewrites (as was the case between version 2.x and 3.x) need to be identified at the start of a thread in order to give proper responses.

I have to say, not everyone posting in the forums states what version of eZ Publish they are using right away and this often causes confusion and frustration.

With the move from eZ Publish v2 to v3 here in the forums there was good planning within the context of creating a hierarchy of separated forum categories for both versions. Here is an example from the internet archive:

https://web.archive.org/web/20031216231747/http://www.ez.no/developer/forums/

Hesitations and Concerns

In short I'm actually hesitant to embrace version specific forums. I think they can cause a lot of other problems and are often simply not needed. (It would be an even larger nightmare if you consider that we would double or triple our number of RSS feeds for all the forums! I monitor them all and do not at all like the idea of having to monitor 3x the number of RSS feeds to keep up with the forums)

I honestly wish that the users of the forums would always post the version of eZ Publish they are using in the first forum post in a new thread that they create (perhaps we could add a request asking for this in the forum thread creation view and explain why it's so vital to help any user??). 

New stack beginnings

I think (and this is just my pondering this afternoon), that the new stack got a single dedicated forum with the initial introduction of the new php apis to provide a place for discussions before the forum was renamed to 'eZ Publish 5 Platform' it was called 'New PHP API' first.

https://web.archive.org/web/20111216205804/http://share.ez.no/forums

Also in a way with the dual kernel system in place in eZ Publish 5.x, the legacy stack initially remained a major part of the core system. This meant that questions about eZ Publish in general were still not version specific but rather ... i'm struggling for the right word here, I want to say implementation specific but I can think of no better way than: stack specific. Which stack are you using? new stack or legacy was commonly asked?

This is just a few reasons I think we now have the current situation we have now.

This will change greatly over time, increased implementation exposure, community involvement, contributions and the release and use of version 6.0 with the new admin bundle.

Recommendations

I think that the best answer long term would be to change the structure of the forums very carefully.

My primary concern and hesitation with changing the structure of the forums is -breaking links-.

The problem of broken links has -haunted- the eZ Publish community greatly over the last 10+ years.

If we break links by moving the forums into a version specific tree structure we break a massive amount of internal and external links through out the entire internet.

Breaking links hurts both existing and especially new users very very badly. I know how to solve almost all broken links because of years of experience doing so in the eZ Community while others are often left without this help not knowing or afraid to ask how to find the old link resources.

Which is why I would plead, beg and bribe eZ Systems to not break legacy forum links for at least 2 more years. I know it's a long time but I truly feel this issue is critical, we all need time to migrate away from legacy when these resources will be needed less and the breakage of links is unfortunate but almost certainly inevitable.

Over the years even eZ Publish redirections of broken links of moved resources fail and users are left unable to find the old link resources. This happened badly during the move of the forums from ez.no/developer to ez.no/community to share.ez.no over the course of many years, repeatedly harming users with broken links to vital resources.

A Way Forward

I plead that we leave the existing forum structure as is with perhaps a few exceptions.

Create a version specific forum (sub forum container) for eZ Platform 6 as a sub item of /forums which contains sub forums similar to the existing /forums sub forum replacing 'Extensions' with 'Bundles' as this makes more sense.

If the community thinks it would really help then create a version specific forum (sub forum container) for 'eZ Publish 5 Platform' (replacing the existing single forum) as a sub item of /forums which contains sub forums similar to the existing /forums sub forum replacing 'Extensions' with 'Bundles' as this makes more sense. Also most importantly the current existing content of the 'eZ Publish 5 Platform' forum should be moved to "eZ Publish 5 Platform" / "General" in the short term to clean up the overall content storage structure.

We would still have new stack link breakage but considering the new stack links are not as old as the legacy links, I think this is a fair compromise. Honestly in my experience I think the beginner new stack developers could (much better) withstand this link breakage while beginner legacy users would not.

I would strongly discourage creation of an 'eZ Publish 4' specific forum subtree for the reasons above as well as the fact that most of the eZ Publish 4 forum content is already mixed in with eZ Publish 3 forum content, considering the forums history and the api breakage in v4.x was minimal so the answers really for the most part apply to both (Yes I'm still working on eZ Publish 3.x projects, mostly upgrades). Also with legacy being deprecated I feel moving this forum content is simply not needed or warranted.

That said moving forward, If version specific forums are demanded by more of the community at large I think my recommendations on how to implement this solution are wise and invaluable.

Question

 eZ Community! Do you need version specific forums or do you need more users to clearly share in the first forum post what version and stack of eZ Publish they are using?

Thank you for your patience with my long winded reply. I really care in great detail about the eZ Community! I look forward to hearing the thoughts of others!

I hope this helps!

Cheers,
Heath

Modified on Thursday 05 February 2015 12:50:16 am by // Heath

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